Watching the special report on NBC atm about that "massacre at virginia tech"
Messed up, although im just -now- hearing about it.
What the hell happened at Virginia Tech?
What the hell happened at Virginia Tech?
The fleecy cloud may kiss the sky...the rose may kiss the butterfly...the morning dew may kiss the grass...and you, my friend, can kiss my ass!
Flint and myself both attend VT, both unharmed
A shooting happened at 7:15am in the residence hall of WAJ. Apparently the gunman got in a fight with his girlfriend and shot her, then killed her RA. From this point, it is unclear exactly where the gunman went, however we know 2 hours later he had the doors of the academic building Norris in chains, and started unloading rounds into classrooms.
The first shooting at that time was labeled a domestic dispute so only that dorm directly in question was being policed. Academics went on like usual. Classes were not canceled. A couple hours later, when word got out that the gunman was still on campus, and causing havoc in Norris hall, is when the campus went into a complete lockdown. He killed 30 students in this building and then took his own life.
Truly sad
A shooting happened at 7:15am in the residence hall of WAJ. Apparently the gunman got in a fight with his girlfriend and shot her, then killed her RA. From this point, it is unclear exactly where the gunman went, however we know 2 hours later he had the doors of the academic building Norris in chains, and started unloading rounds into classrooms.
The first shooting at that time was labeled a domestic dispute so only that dorm directly in question was being policed. Academics went on like usual. Classes were not canceled. A couple hours later, when word got out that the gunman was still on campus, and causing havoc in Norris hall, is when the campus went into a complete lockdown. He killed 30 students in this building and then took his own life.
Truly sad
Last edited by Hylandor on Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
We've seen to many of these shootings, kids of today seem to be so wack
-
RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
Am i the only one who thinks the college is largely at fault here? I dont care where a double murder happens, not cancelling classes, not alerting everyone. Not anything. Not enough.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
I do think they let those 30 other people down big time. I don't know how you can find a shooting to be an isolated incident. I mean honestly would it have been hard to announce over the PA system and call all the RA's to make announcements and put up some barricades blocking the roads onto campus?
End
I think the college did the same thing any other college would do, it appeared to be a domestic dispute in the dorms that turned violent, and they thought they had the guy they needed, so it is easy to mistakenly think eveything is now under control. I think at my college the same thing could have happened, because you are fooled into thinking some incident "way over in the dorms" won't make it's way to campus, which in my case is really only a couple hundred feet away, but it seems seperate. Who would think a fight would turn into that, it's just too crazy to expect.
-
RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
Me. Anyone who kills two people is capable of killing 100.Who would think a fight would turn into that, it's just too crazy to expect.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
Given the size of the campus at VT... I mean the campus is immense, and the fact that it would be difficult at best to notify 26,000 people in a short period of time, I don't see how they did anything wrong. You had what appeared to be a fairly typical domestic violence crime scene, so who could have predicted what happened? Also, what would the students have done but go to their residence halls, where they would be congregated for the shooter to do his thing anyway. Also, because of the size of the campus, number of buildings, exits, streets, etc., etc., there isn't enough campus AND local police to lock the place down anyway.
If there had been SOME evidence of what was to come, like if he had left his note at the crime scene, or if there had been some witness that saw his weapons and all his clips on his jacket, then maybe. But you had to kids with simple gunshot wounds, no witnesses, and no indication of what was to come.
If there had been SOME evidence of what was to come, like if he had left his note at the crime scene, or if there had been some witness that saw his weapons and all his clips on his jacket, then maybe. But you had to kids with simple gunshot wounds, no witnesses, and no indication of what was to come.
Old Man.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on alot here
Yes the campus is huge, but the methods of locking down the campus just didnt happen until it was too late(second shooting). And when I say "locking down" the campus, I mean stationing police all throughout the campus, cancelling off classes, and making sure absolutely nobody is coming into the campus.
This is done easier then what you seem to believe. There are only about 6 main entry points to the VT campus. Begin by parking an officer at each of these points to make sure nobody else can get into campus except law enforcement and medical assistance. Next is you station the remaining law enforcement all throughout campus. What happened monday is the police were confined to primarily West Ambler Johnston. They had over 2 hours before the next shooting even took place. They were being closed minded. They did not have the perp in custody. They stated that they thought he most likely fled campus. If you do not have him in custody, then he is at large, and needs to be dealt with as if he was.
VT has an alarm system that can sound and be heard from all ends of the campus. This system was originally intended for weather warnings, but found its use yesterday, again too late. This warning could have played every 5-10 minutes directly after the first shooting. The first class of the day didnt even take place till 45 minutes after the first shooting. The second shooting happened durring the second set of classes.
You also dont seem to understand that the majority of students are off campus. The Blacksburg Transit continued to send students into campus, up until the total lockdown at the second shooting. They were not obstructed in any way, and never told to stop making their routes. They werent told to stop because classes were still scheduled. Had the decision been made to cancel classes off directly after the first shooting, these bus drivers could have recieved radio transmission to no longer make inbound routes unless they were doing so to pick up remaining students on campus and bring them to safety off campus. If the radio for some reason didnt work, the police officer blocking the entry point would have.
At the very least, the campus could have had a class delay. Yes, we've had class delays before, and it doesnt take over 2 hours to get word out.... and mind you thats not using extreme measures of getting the word out. I do not accept the excuse that the campus is too big. Those who make this excuse act as if our campus has never canceled classes or delayed classes before.
Even if the lockdown procedure was taking awhile to do, at least EVERYONE would know something is wrong, and they as students and professors would have a hightened sense of awareness. They would not simply think that the loud noises they were hearing were construction workers. They would not simply think that these noises they were hearing was someone simply pulling a prank.
As for your comment about confining everyone to their dorm rooms.. I think I have addressed it for the most part, or you can see how things would have changed. Those in their dorm would be safely in their room with their doors locked. Police would have been stationed more throughout the campus and just not WAJ, making responce even quicker.
The fact remains that if you have a suspect not in custody, who has killed 2 people allready, you need to take action immediately, and you need to do it on a campus-wide magnitude. Classes werent canceled. Aside from an email notification that a shot was fired on the VT campus, nothing else was done except interviews and questioning at WAJ.
Again, at the very least a delay could have been put into place. If you dont even think a delay should be the standard starting procedure, then your asking for this to happen again.
Yes the campus is huge, but the methods of locking down the campus just didnt happen until it was too late(second shooting). And when I say "locking down" the campus, I mean stationing police all throughout the campus, cancelling off classes, and making sure absolutely nobody is coming into the campus.
This is done easier then what you seem to believe. There are only about 6 main entry points to the VT campus. Begin by parking an officer at each of these points to make sure nobody else can get into campus except law enforcement and medical assistance. Next is you station the remaining law enforcement all throughout campus. What happened monday is the police were confined to primarily West Ambler Johnston. They had over 2 hours before the next shooting even took place. They were being closed minded. They did not have the perp in custody. They stated that they thought he most likely fled campus. If you do not have him in custody, then he is at large, and needs to be dealt with as if he was.
VT has an alarm system that can sound and be heard from all ends of the campus. This system was originally intended for weather warnings, but found its use yesterday, again too late. This warning could have played every 5-10 minutes directly after the first shooting. The first class of the day didnt even take place till 45 minutes after the first shooting. The second shooting happened durring the second set of classes.
You also dont seem to understand that the majority of students are off campus. The Blacksburg Transit continued to send students into campus, up until the total lockdown at the second shooting. They were not obstructed in any way, and never told to stop making their routes. They werent told to stop because classes were still scheduled. Had the decision been made to cancel classes off directly after the first shooting, these bus drivers could have recieved radio transmission to no longer make inbound routes unless they were doing so to pick up remaining students on campus and bring them to safety off campus. If the radio for some reason didnt work, the police officer blocking the entry point would have.
At the very least, the campus could have had a class delay. Yes, we've had class delays before, and it doesnt take over 2 hours to get word out.... and mind you thats not using extreme measures of getting the word out. I do not accept the excuse that the campus is too big. Those who make this excuse act as if our campus has never canceled classes or delayed classes before.
Even if the lockdown procedure was taking awhile to do, at least EVERYONE would know something is wrong, and they as students and professors would have a hightened sense of awareness. They would not simply think that the loud noises they were hearing were construction workers. They would not simply think that these noises they were hearing was someone simply pulling a prank.
As for your comment about confining everyone to their dorm rooms.. I think I have addressed it for the most part, or you can see how things would have changed. Those in their dorm would be safely in their room with their doors locked. Police would have been stationed more throughout the campus and just not WAJ, making responce even quicker.
The fact remains that if you have a suspect not in custody, who has killed 2 people allready, you need to take action immediately, and you need to do it on a campus-wide magnitude. Classes werent canceled. Aside from an email notification that a shot was fired on the VT campus, nothing else was done except interviews and questioning at WAJ.
Again, at the very least a delay could have been put into place. If you dont even think a delay should be the standard starting procedure, then your asking for this to happen again.
-
RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
While i may not agree it be rational to put 20 police officers on one case, blocking off the whole school because of this.
It would be PERFECTLY rational to send an email to everyone saying "Classes are delayed until further notice, there was a shooting in such and such building that involved at least three people, if you do not feel safe at your dorm go somewhere else such as a library, etc etc etc and please alert everyone to this".
Then tighten security. It may not have stopped much of anything. But you wouldnt have an entire building full of clueless people waiting to be shot. You would have made SOME effort.
It would be PERFECTLY rational to send an email to everyone saying "Classes are delayed until further notice, there was a shooting in such and such building that involved at least three people, if you do not feel safe at your dorm go somewhere else such as a library, etc etc etc and please alert everyone to this".
Then tighten security. It may not have stopped much of anything. But you wouldnt have an entire building full of clueless people waiting to be shot. You would have made SOME effort.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
Fuck me if public high schools using tax payer money aren't safer with any sort of threat of violence compared to the way universities are run. I'm not advocating metal detectors at the doors and that kind of stuff, its just that the administration is setup to lockdown in the event of any sort of violence. Its a shame that Columbine had to happen to make a drastic change to High Schools and how threats of violence are handled. Now we've got a bloodbath at VT to change how everyone thinks of Colleges.
"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq and everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future for us."
Friends don't let friends educate their children in South Carolina
Friends don't let friends educate their children in South Carolina
When some guy walks in on his wife with some other guy at his house kills them the police don't shut down a 10 block radius, they just block off the house (and maybe route traffic around it). It's like any other situation like that, they could find out later that it wasn't the husband after all (ever see The Shawshank Redemption?), it was some crazy guy in the neighborhood who is now in the mall 2 blocks away shooting it up. Do you blame the cops for not shutting down the mall because there was a shooting 2 blocks away? Maybe you do, but I wouldn't, they thought they knew what was going on and took the appropriate actions, and had no reason to believe this was anything other than some guy killing his woman and her secret lover, after all OJ didn't go shoot up some nearby building after iceing his Ex and her lover.RoamingMadness wrote:Me. Anyone who kills two people is capable of killing 100.
This situation was similar, a shooting in a residence near some other buildings, no matter what you think you would expect, it's just because hind sight is 20/20, you wouldn't have thought of it either. I agree they could have cancelled classes, at least out of simpathy for the first shooting, but would it have mattered? The guy probably would have know classes were cancelled, so he would have just started killing in the dorms. Like Mikey said, then all the students who live on campus would have been hanging around the residence halls shortly after it happened instead of heading off to class. It was unexpected and tragic, nobody thought of what could have happened, and none of us would have either, now eveyone is trying to play Monday Morning Quarterback and have all the shoulda woulda couldas.
-
RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
Woah woah woah. You are so incorrect. This is what i do as the school/police.This situation was similar, a shooting in a residence near some other buildings, no matter what you think you would expect, it's just because hind sight is 20/20, you wouldn't have thought of it either.
1. Find two dead bodies in a dorm, one of them an RA. No weapon.
2. Put security on the dorm building, cancel morning classes AT LEAST.
3. Find suspects asap.
This isnt crazy logic. Dorms are part of a school. Two people get murdered there. Canceling a few classes is absolutely NOTHING. Its obvious someone killed them, and that person is on the loose.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
OK wow, if there is a gunman loose in some neighborhood in a residential area you don't think cops are gonna be driving around warning people in the area with their loudspeakers. Or those people would be unaware of all the sirens in the area? Anything to heighten the level of awareness on campus would've helped, but the actions they took were too little too late.
End
One of the first deaths was an RA, in your example that is equivalent to that gunman killing his wife and then shooting a neighbor aswell.
Also I would like to mention that when VT had the Malvo incident on the first day of classes, campus went into lockdown immediately and classes were closed. The first death in this Malvo incident wasnt even on the campus.
Also I would like to mention that when VT had the Malvo incident on the first day of classes, campus went into lockdown immediately and classes were closed. The first death in this Malvo incident wasnt even on the campus.
I said they didn't know that someone was on the loose, they thought they had it under control, and in the example the gunman began shooting before they realized they had the wrong person. Please read the post before responding. Of course if they knew a madman was running around nearby they would try to contain the area that he was expected to be in, but if you don't know where he is, or that he was even out there, what do you quarantine? The campus? The City? The County? The local mall? Do you close all highways in and out of the area when you expect the person to be long gone? It's easy for us to say what they should have closed, because we know where he went.Koric wrote:OK wow, if there is a gunman loose in some neighborhood in a residential area you don't think cops are gonna be driving around warning people in the area with their loudspeakers.
I don't see how that makes sense, it doesn't matter what job one of the people has, he killed two people in the same area, they were probably both involved in some sort of fight, hence the example of finding you wife cheating, you get in a fight involving 2 people in the same area.Hylandor wrote:One of the first deaths was an RA, in your example that is equivalent to that gunman killing his wife and then shooting a neighbor aswell.
That's exactly what I said, secure the area (which they did) and canceling classes would have been ok, although I don't think it would have changed anything, except maybe the location of the killing.RoamingMadness wrote:2. Put security on the dorm building, cancel morning classes AT LEAST.
I'm quite sure that's exactly what they were doing, but at the time they had no idea if it was even a student or not. When someone shoots 2 people, I still don't care what you think you might have expected, you will think the crime has been commited and is over, you do not expect it to continue 2 hours later in the same area, at the very least you expect the person to be long gone, because people tend to flee the scene of a crime, not stay there and plan for more, he was a psyco that you can't predict. You start an investigation into what happened, and everyone else continues on with their day. I bet you'd all think differently if every few weeks your work/school was closing because there was a crime in the area, if that was the case some schools might be closed every other day.RoamingMadness wrote:3. Find suspects asap.
Apparently nobody is reading post's entirely, perhaps everyone is too worked up about it, fine I understand. I still say the cops did what they do everyday in a crime scene situation, they shut down the immediate area, begin to collect evidence, try to piece together what happened, and while they did that he started up again. It doesn't matter what they did or didn't do, he would have found the largest group of people he could and did it anyway, it's sad and tragic, pointing fingers doesn't help. People are always looking for who to point the finger at in these situations, but it's just a tragic event that happened and it's nobodys fault except the gunman.RoamingMadness wrote:This isnt crazy logic. Dorms are part of a school. Two people get murdered there. Canceling a few classes is absolutely NOTHING. Its obvious someone killed them, and that person is on the loose.
If any of the information I have is wrong as to when things happened, where, ect. I'm sorry, I'm hearing news from all over and it changes every hour it seems.
Just like we knew where Malvo went? We didnt know where he went, yet the campus went into a lockdown and it probably saved lives.Kadian wrote: I said they didn't know that someone was on the loose, they thought they had it under control, and in the example the gunman began shooting before they realized they had the wrong person. Please read the post before responding. Of course if they knew a madman was running around nearby they would try to contain the area that he was expected to be in, but if you don't know where he is, or that he was even out there, what do you quarantine? The campus? The City? The County? The local mall? Do you close all highways in and out of the area when you expect the person to be long gone? It's easy for us to say what they should have closed, because we know where he went.
The point which you cant make sense of is that I am questioning it being labaled as simply a domestic dispute. I dont see how you think the job/status of someone killed in the same area doesnt effect this. What if it was a cop that he killed in the same area? Still want to chalk it up to a domestic dispute? The RA, as I am relating to the cop, has a duty to make sure his residence are safe. He was doing his job and his life was taken for it. A domestic dispute on a college campus.... think about that one will you?Kadian wrote:I don't see how that makes sense, it doesn't matter what job one of the people has, he killed two people in the same area, they were probably both involved in some sort of fight, hence the example of finding you wife cheating, you get in a fight involving 2 people in the same area.