I hate both.
It seems that ranged class must go for the same item mods as the melee class, both need the high dmg and IAS to work, as least that's the case of my WD.
Buying weapons I'm always looking for highest dmg and the best speed, int and other mods are secondary.
It annoys me, I'd wish the stats were more important, as it is I have 1.2k of int, but adding a +dmg/IAS ring helps more than getting most intel ring.
It seems like the only real variation from 2 toons of the same class and level will be items, sure the build can be different, but that's easily changeable.
Game is fun, but it lacks depth.
Haven't found one set or legendary yet either...
Item importance and lack of diversity
Item importance and lack of diversity
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
Wasn't D2 similar though? At the end game of D2C, lets say rings, everyone wanted resist all, and then if you were a caster, you use used SoJ or FCR rings with stats, barbs used leech rings with attack rating/stats
In an ideal world everyone has stats of everything (stat vita resist all IAS crit hit chance and crit hit damage) but at this point in time no one I know has enough funds to buy these gears (might change tomorrow with RMAH on the way) and so people need to compensate.
Right now I lean towards high str/crit dmg on my barb as it gives me a bit more bang for buck. I'm at around 36k dps but I feel it's more effective compard to 40k DPS with stacked IAS.
In an ideal world everyone has stats of everything (stat vita resist all IAS crit hit chance and crit hit damage) but at this point in time no one I know has enough funds to buy these gears (might change tomorrow with RMAH on the way) and so people need to compensate.
Right now I lean towards high str/crit dmg on my barb as it gives me a bit more bang for buck. I'm at around 36k dps but I feel it's more effective compard to 40k DPS with stacked IAS.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
Maybe I'm not seeing the similarity, I seem to recall alot more diversity and depth in D2, but then I played for so long, of course I was gonna see alot more stuff.Skitril wrote:Wasn't D2 similar though? At the end game of D2C, lets say rings, everyone wanted resist all, and then if you were a caster, you use used SoJ or FCR rings with stats, barbs used leech rings with attack rating/stats
In an ideal world everyone has stats of everything (stat vita resist all IAS crit hit chance and crit hit damage) but at this point in time no one I know has enough funds to buy these gears (might change tomorrow with RMAH on the way) and so people need to compensate.
Right now I lean towards high str/crit dmg on my barb as it gives me a bit more bang for buck. I'm at around 36k dps but I feel it's more effective compard to 40k DPS with stacked IAS.
I just dislike having to look for dmg and weapon stats on my gear while being a mage type class.
I'm looking for highest dmg, with IAS and +min dmg gear, int, resists are the other stuff im looking for. It seems vita is useless going forward...
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
I think right now in D3 there's a lot less mod diversity. Uniques are typically rares with better stats or mods which the item normally could not get (like IAS on armor)
I think I know where you are coming from though, remember crushing blow on goblin toes? Made low damage super fast attk speed builds viable. Iceblink and eye of etlich for turning everything into cubicles? But again those items were not used in the first month either. And I am starting to see some of that already in D3. For instance Freeze on Hit gear could be kind of promising
With the unique item change later on hopefully things will be difference.
I think I know where you are coming from though, remember crushing blow on goblin toes? Made low damage super fast attk speed builds viable. Iceblink and eye of etlich for turning everything into cubicles? But again those items were not used in the first month either. And I am starting to see some of that already in D3. For instance Freeze on Hit gear could be kind of promising
With the unique item change later on hopefully things will be difference.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
I got a level 52 and a lvl 24 I think, and have not run into any uniques or set items yet, that's kinda annoying me too, as the uniques you point where not that rare and really helpful.Skitril wrote:I think right now in D3 there's a lot less mod diversity. Uniques are typically rares with better stats or mods which the item normally could not get (like IAS on armor)
I think I know where you are coming from though, remember crushing blow on goblin toes? Made low damage super fast attk speed builds viable. Iceblink and eye of etlich for turning everything into cubicles? But again those items were not used in the first month either. And I am starting to see some of that already in D3. For instance Freeze on Hit gear could be kind of promising
With the unique item change later on hopefully things will be difference.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
i dont find the item diversity to be lacking really, each class uses different stats and combination plus theres a lot of stats on certain legendaries that are good, like string of ears/stormshield. and justice lantern or helm of command which have things like +block% on slots you couldnt normally get it on items in that slot, makes certain things good.
even with the classes that use the same stats like monks and demon hunters, they all want different shit.
Monks would want Dex/Vit/AllRes/One Res
Demon hunters want Dex/Crit%/CritDmg/ and then vit if they can get it.
Wizards and WD's i think go for different stats too but i havent read up on them enough to know the difference.
Barbs can go way different stat wise as well. Str/Vit/Allres/Armor for the tanky build or Str/Vit/Atkspeed/crit/critdmg
i know it seems less diverse, but honestly how diverse was d2 outside of retarded builds like poison dagger necros or shit like that?
You had the following items on nearly everyone, Shako, enigma, soj, ravenfrost, bulkathos ring, arachnid mesh or string, maras, stormshield, hoto almost every character had a lot of those items. only barbs or melee characters would have a different set of items.
even with the classes that use the same stats like monks and demon hunters, they all want different shit.
Monks would want Dex/Vit/AllRes/One Res
Demon hunters want Dex/Crit%/CritDmg/ and then vit if they can get it.
Wizards and WD's i think go for different stats too but i havent read up on them enough to know the difference.
Barbs can go way different stat wise as well. Str/Vit/Allres/Armor for the tanky build or Str/Vit/Atkspeed/crit/critdmg
i know it seems less diverse, but honestly how diverse was d2 outside of retarded builds like poison dagger necros or shit like that?
You had the following items on nearly everyone, Shako, enigma, soj, ravenfrost, bulkathos ring, arachnid mesh or string, maras, stormshield, hoto almost every character had a lot of those items. only barbs or melee characters would have a different set of items.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
But every class is looking for high dmg weapons, as a WD I want the highest dmg fastest 1hand weapon. Sure some would want a 2 hander, but they'll want just about the same mods on it, IAS, +min dmg, %crit dmg, and int.
Apart from int, any other class could be interested in such weapons.
As for uniques, again I've played a whole lot and haven't had a sniff of them.
Right now, afaik, there is not even a viable wacky build, the skills don't seem to allow for such diversity.
Maybe I'm stuck in this mindframe because I'm playing the weakest class, but it's just does not compare well to it's predecessor, or the games that have came in between D2 and D3 that exploits the same genre.
Apart from int, any other class could be interested in such weapons.
As for uniques, again I've played a whole lot and haven't had a sniff of them.
Right now, afaik, there is not even a viable wacky build, the skills don't seem to allow for such diversity.
Maybe I'm stuck in this mindframe because I'm playing the weakest class, but it's just does not compare well to it's predecessor, or the games that have came in between D2 and D3 that exploits the same genre.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
i'd say witch doctor was 3/5 not the weakest personally. But the weapon deal is a little odd, but really having everyone using the same unique level 30 weapon or whatever just cause it has the most attack speed on it or something is probably worse than everyone wanting similar stats. Its same as d2, you wants Cruel of Quickness on a Collosus blade and if it didnt have those it'd be a tad inferior to the CCBoQ and everyone who used that weapon type would want those mods, it was similar for other weapon types too. The difference now is, you can search for whatever weapon type you want and the stats you want (although not nearly enough)
Plus imo every class also wants different weapon modifiers, life on hit + a socket on a high dps 1hander is worth significantly more money than any +atk speed bonus, as long as the dps is within 100-150 my first million+ gold item i found was a +400life on hit with a socket 1hander with 700dps, because to barbs or monks its way better than anything else. Yet i doubt a wizard or a demon hunter would value those stats as highly especially on a lower dps weapon.
I honestly dont have a problem with people all wanting high dps weapons with +atk speed and the like, because those stats are beneficial to every class. In d2 there were a few classes that might not even ever use a real attack so they could get away with +skills and such instead.
Now they've just changed it so everyone wants the most +skills, skills scale with your items (a lot more with your weapon, but +mainstat scales well for damage) whereas in d2 only strength added damage (i think?) and only to melee attacks so you could use a low damage but high function weapon on most classes.
now everyone can do actual damage and has real attacks which all scale without just adding more ++to the specific skill, it allows for build diversity imo, so you dont need 3 different weapons when you swap out one of your skills for another. You can just use the good weapon you found instead of hoarding everything incase you somehow need that one random weapon for the flavor of the month build.
EDIT: damn i ramble a lot.
Plus imo every class also wants different weapon modifiers, life on hit + a socket on a high dps 1hander is worth significantly more money than any +atk speed bonus, as long as the dps is within 100-150 my first million+ gold item i found was a +400life on hit with a socket 1hander with 700dps, because to barbs or monks its way better than anything else. Yet i doubt a wizard or a demon hunter would value those stats as highly especially on a lower dps weapon.
I honestly dont have a problem with people all wanting high dps weapons with +atk speed and the like, because those stats are beneficial to every class. In d2 there were a few classes that might not even ever use a real attack so they could get away with +skills and such instead.
Now they've just changed it so everyone wants the most +skills, skills scale with your items (a lot more with your weapon, but +mainstat scales well for damage) whereas in d2 only strength added damage (i think?) and only to melee attacks so you could use a low damage but high function weapon on most classes.
now everyone can do actual damage and has real attacks which all scale without just adding more ++to the specific skill, it allows for build diversity imo, so you dont need 3 different weapons when you swap out one of your skills for another. You can just use the good weapon you found instead of hoarding everything incase you somehow need that one random weapon for the flavor of the month build.
EDIT: damn i ramble a lot.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
I was just going by a poll I saw on Reddit saying it was the weakest. I have not played as much as you either, but I kind of hit a wall, so I have not been playing much lately.StormCrow wrote:i'd say witch doctor was 3/5 not the weakest personally....
EDIT: damn i ramble a lot.
I'm hoping for a massive patch, like 1.03 in D2.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
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Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
i guess shir and i burnt out on the WD about the same time. Oddly, for a very similar reason.
In d2 i made 3 Javazons with slight differences. Aside from the skill differences (more dodge, GA, or Plague vs LF) they also had stat differences.
Str added damage, Dex for block, vit for everything else.. for SOMEHOW you had to figure out to get by with no NRG.
So i'll admit. Not a lot of choices. Yet d3 has even LESS choices. Or at least it feels that way.
In d3 I feel no difference between a mace, polearm, crossbow, or dagger/mojo.
The entire weapon situation has boiled down to "would you like to use a shield?"
And the armor options feel even less of a choice. Most items have 4 or 5 possible modifiers. After your primary stat, vitality, IAS, Damage, crit, and resists... you're taking about VERY little room for choices and even less options.
In d2 you have achivable goals for your items. You could say "i want Cannot be frozen, now which piece of gear will i use to get that: ring, belt, or charm." or "i want 75% DR which combo of gear do i use to get that"
The relationship between each piece of gear felt greater. And, as shiram said, playing through 55 levels without seeing a single legendary is a huge flaw to me. I don't like this idea of 'rares being the best items in the game, when those items are EXTREMELY generic. I'd MUCH rather have a few super rare mods ON rare items and see a unique once or twice playing through game play.
The item system, at least for me, isn't d2. It's WoW.
I should point out i agree with basically everything storm said. It just 'feels' a lot worse to me.
This is a minor difference which should be YOUR decision. There shouldn't crit for DH and haste for wizards, or w/e the 'best' is.i dont find the item diversity to be lacking really, each class uses different stats
In d2 i made 3 Javazons with slight differences. Aside from the skill differences (more dodge, GA, or Plague vs LF) they also had stat differences.
Str added damage, Dex for block, vit for everything else.. for SOMEHOW you had to figure out to get by with no NRG.
So i'll admit. Not a lot of choices. Yet d3 has even LESS choices. Or at least it feels that way.
In d3 I feel no difference between a mace, polearm, crossbow, or dagger/mojo.
The entire weapon situation has boiled down to "would you like to use a shield?"
And the armor options feel even less of a choice. Most items have 4 or 5 possible modifiers. After your primary stat, vitality, IAS, Damage, crit, and resists... you're taking about VERY little room for choices and even less options.
In d2 you have achivable goals for your items. You could say "i want Cannot be frozen, now which piece of gear will i use to get that: ring, belt, or charm." or "i want 75% DR which combo of gear do i use to get that"
The relationship between each piece of gear felt greater. And, as shiram said, playing through 55 levels without seeing a single legendary is a huge flaw to me. I don't like this idea of 'rares being the best items in the game, when those items are EXTREMELY generic. I'd MUCH rather have a few super rare mods ON rare items and see a unique once or twice playing through game play.
The item system, at least for me, isn't d2. It's WoW.
I should point out i agree with basically everything storm said. It just 'feels' a lot worse to me.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
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There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
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I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
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Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
yeah i dislike not finding more legendaries (i've found 3 total on like 170+ hours or something and they all sucked ass) there are some really good ones but the vast majority are awful.
legendary weapons might as well not be in the game (until they get buffed in the 1.0.3 patch)
mostly just rings/amulets that are any good, outside of the minor outliers like Stormshield helm of command and string of ears (and those atk speed boots all the demon hunters use)
I remember rares in d2 being similar to how they are now, except before you'd want certain item types for certain reasons like champ swords > CB's for berserk or polearms/spears for extra range.
weapon type doesnt seem to matter to nonbarbs and it only matters to barbs if you use a single passive, and even then all the passive modifiers seem to even out to the same dps increase, it is kind of lame.
but i like how it is compared to every paladin sorc necro assassin druid all using: shako, hoto, enigma, 2x soj or soj/raven, maras arachnid mesh, fast cast gloves, HoZ for paladins, homunc for necros, SS for everyone else. and whichever +speed boots they happened to have on them.
atleast theres some minor variations, and also, you get actual weapon upgrades now, before you'd give your caster any low level +skills weapon and higher you give them a wiz spike or a hoto.
now you can upgrade as you go, and feel your increases in power a little more linearly (although the huge power gains from stupid items in d2 felt pretty good too).
i don't even know how i feel about the system itself, i find loot that is amazing and still feel pretty good when i equip it (although mostly when i buy it on the AH) you just don't see massive power jumps when you get a new item anymore, when before you could find a soj at like level 20 and be significantly more powerful.
a few things i do Hate though. No wands/staves/scepters for +++ gold sales
and finding low level items like a wand with +3 skeleton mastery, +3 raise skeleton, +3 Summon resists or crazy shit like that was pretty fun.
I don't think the item system is all that bad really seems like they saw all the ridiculous legendarys that everyone equipped and was like, do we want everyone to wear the same set of items?
but now you just have a lot of generic gear with the +stats you want. Hard to tell which is better at this point honestly
legendary weapons might as well not be in the game (until they get buffed in the 1.0.3 patch)
mostly just rings/amulets that are any good, outside of the minor outliers like Stormshield helm of command and string of ears (and those atk speed boots all the demon hunters use)
I remember rares in d2 being similar to how they are now, except before you'd want certain item types for certain reasons like champ swords > CB's for berserk or polearms/spears for extra range.
weapon type doesnt seem to matter to nonbarbs and it only matters to barbs if you use a single passive, and even then all the passive modifiers seem to even out to the same dps increase, it is kind of lame.
but i like how it is compared to every paladin sorc necro assassin druid all using: shako, hoto, enigma, 2x soj or soj/raven, maras arachnid mesh, fast cast gloves, HoZ for paladins, homunc for necros, SS for everyone else. and whichever +speed boots they happened to have on them.
atleast theres some minor variations, and also, you get actual weapon upgrades now, before you'd give your caster any low level +skills weapon and higher you give them a wiz spike or a hoto.
now you can upgrade as you go, and feel your increases in power a little more linearly (although the huge power gains from stupid items in d2 felt pretty good too).
i don't even know how i feel about the system itself, i find loot that is amazing and still feel pretty good when i equip it (although mostly when i buy it on the AH) you just don't see massive power jumps when you get a new item anymore, when before you could find a soj at like level 20 and be significantly more powerful.
a few things i do Hate though. No wands/staves/scepters for +++ gold sales
and finding low level items like a wand with +3 skeleton mastery, +3 raise skeleton, +3 Summon resists or crazy shit like that was pretty fun.
I don't think the item system is all that bad really seems like they saw all the ridiculous legendarys that everyone equipped and was like, do we want everyone to wear the same set of items?
but now you just have a lot of generic gear with the +stats you want. Hard to tell which is better at this point honestly
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
Also getting only blues from end of act boss, on the first time you kill them is very disapointing.
Add to that, the Auction House is full of items, it kinda defeats the purpose of grinding for gear, the amount of legendaries already on there is staggering.
All of my best gear comes from the auction house.
Even the gems, I only got so far as flawless squares for now, but it's alot less costly to just buy them, than to craft them.
Add to that, the Auction House is full of items, it kinda defeats the purpose of grinding for gear, the amount of legendaries already on there is staggering.
All of my best gear comes from the auction house.
Even the gems, I only got so far as flawless squares for now, but it's alot less costly to just buy them, than to craft them.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
in the 1.0.3 patch gem crafting under flawless squares is getting reduced by a shitload.
2x squares and 100g per flawless square, should help that quite a bit.
I believe at some point nm hell and inferno boss first kills will drop rares too but i dont think there's an eta on that, although it should have been in the game to begin with imo.
2x squares and 100g per flawless square, should help that quite a bit.
I believe at some point nm hell and inferno boss first kills will drop rares too but i dont think there's an eta on that, although it should have been in the game to begin with imo.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
I checked alot of WD's with similar level to me, and it seems I got good gear, dps wise anyways.
I think Roam has got a big 2 hander for 800 dps, while i got a fast 1 hander at about 250-260 dps, and yet my overall dps is higher than him, mostly due to increaded dmg items and IAS.
I think I got about 8k dps, at level 53.
I think Roam has got a big 2 hander for 800 dps, while i got a fast 1 hander at about 250-260 dps, and yet my overall dps is higher than him, mostly due to increaded dmg items and IAS.
I think I got about 8k dps, at level 53.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
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Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
890 DPS weapon (its stormcrows 
) with 960 int makes 11k DPS.. i have a little dmg from items and IAS, but im focused mainly on gold pickup radius. >.>
) with 960 int makes 11k DPS.. i have a little dmg from items and IAS, but im focused mainly on gold pickup radius. >.>You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
Re: Item importance and lack of diversity
I miss Sanders boots, Sigons belt and gloves.
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