Hola amigos,
Since I got a job now (finally) I can afford to buy that new screen I've been thinking about for a couple of years, heh.. So, since I do not know jack shit about flat screen monitors, I thought I'd ask my fellow nerds for some input. What kind of monitor are you yourself using, is it good, what did it cost?
A friend of mine says taht all flat monitors have inherent screen resolutions and that all other resolutions you may choose results in that the monitor scales down or up rather than actually chaning it like on old CRT monitors. is this true, and if it is, how much difference does it make? For windows I prefer to use 1200 resolution and in games, well, whatefver my screen manages with decent hertz, and my current monitor manages 1200 with 72 hertz, which is decent and pretty smooth for the eyes.
And another question, the new kind of monitors don't use/measure hertz in the same way either, or am I wrong? is it anything else I should need to consider before deciding on which new monitor I want to buy? It must be good for gaming primarly of course.
Thanks in advance.
Flat screens
Flat screens
Drunkenmaster wrote:i am teh drun kand tbe drun,. wtf+ .... P?
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<5Nme dream i can see tou I tell you how I fell???
Re: Flat screens
OK, let's quickly sum it up:
1. It's true that all LCD monitors have a fixed, native resolution. You cannot go above this resolution (simply because there are not enough pixels), and all lower resolutions are "interpolated", i.e. downscaled. This degrades image quality in terms of sharpness/clarity since multiple pixels have to "emulate" one. In case of good monitors, image scaling is not a reason to worry about though, since they really downscale well with close to no image deterioration. However, text is best viewed in native resolution since here, scaling is most visible. Therefore, I suggest running native res in Windows.
2. Hz numbers aren't important anymore since LCDs work differently. It's not like the electron cannon has to refresh the entire screen. Simply individual liquid crystals change their orientation and thus, color/hue/intensity, producing "the next frame". Most LCDs are "60 Hz" and you shouldn't even look at this number. There are some 120 Hz displays available but all they do is electronically insert additional frames (black or artificially produced "transition frames") between real frames (the latter method mainly applies to 100/200 Hz LCD TVs). They are compatible with nVidia 3D Vision, a tech where you also need "3D" glasses to achieve 3D effect. I find this technology immature, and the corresponding monitors quite crappy. Stay away IMO.
3. Looking at an LCD monitor, you have to consider the following:
- size/resolution
Three basic choices are available in the midrange/high-end/enthusiast segments: 1680*1050 (20-22"), 1920*1200 (24-27") and 2560*1600 (30"). I recommend going straight for "PC full HD" (1920*1200), or, if you sleep on cash, 30".
Consider the fact that 30" monitors are expensive, have a small pixel pitch (very densely packed pixels which means screen clarity/sharpness is awesome but text is relatively small) and are very demanding in terms of video cards. I have a 1920*1200 monitor - not a typical 24-incher but 26" instead. It provides a large screen with nicely readable, large text, and also a high resolution awesome for games (if a game doesn't support widescreen, I simply use 1600*1200 with vertical black bars - very convenient).
- panel type
Most "cheap" consumer LCDs are based on TN panels, which means:
=> no or low input lag (mouse-screen delay, if high, it can be perceptible especially in fast-paced FPS games),
=> good panel speed (4 ms or less, resulting in reduced motion blur, inherent and inevitable on LCDs, and also no visible ghosting/image trailing),
=> only decent colors (not as accurate or vivid as other panel types),
=> bad viewing angles (horizontal is still OK although white tends to get yellowish off-axis but vertical sucks balls - even a small up-down head movements change your colors on screen, and the screen rapidly darkens viewed from below).
Other popular panels are MVA/PVA panels, known for deepest blacks and best contrast along with good response time but high input lag and so-called black crush (loss of details in darkest tones), and IPS panels, known for average blacks, good contrast, best colors and viewing angles.
I personally prefer IPS, I've had several TN monitors, and while they're fast, I'll never buy one again due to abysmal viewing angles. IPS rocks in this department, and is also fast enough to play all kinds of games.
- panel speed in ms
As long as it's under 16 ms, it's OK. Grey-to-grey is usually lower.
I have the NEC 2690WUXi (it's aimed at CAD professionals), and I think it's great. Perfect viewing angles, decent blacks, good contrast, moderate input lag, incredible colors and very good pixel response time. Its only drawback is high price. Also, some FPS online purists may want a model with lower input lag.
Look at this:
great sites testing LCDs:
http://www.prad.de/ (ENG version is available too)
http://www.flatpanels.dk/ (you should be able to read it in Danish
)
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk
good thread on LCDs:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226
If not the NEC, I recommend cheaper options, also based on IPS panels:
LG W2600HP (make sure it's HP, not H, which is a crappy TN) - a nice 26" with low input lag
or
HP LP2475W (good IPS allrounder, 24")
I'm totally IPS-biased, as you can see. I simply find this panel type so superior I won't even look at TNs anymore, regardless of specs.
BTW, one more great site where you can directly compare LCDs (they fucked up 2690WUXi test though, as apparently they forgot to turn overdrive on in the menu):
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php? ... =1606&ph=1
One more great LCD is an MVA-based NEC:
NEC MultiSync 24WMGX³
Don't skimp on LCD IMO.
1. It's true that all LCD monitors have a fixed, native resolution. You cannot go above this resolution (simply because there are not enough pixels), and all lower resolutions are "interpolated", i.e. downscaled. This degrades image quality in terms of sharpness/clarity since multiple pixels have to "emulate" one. In case of good monitors, image scaling is not a reason to worry about though, since they really downscale well with close to no image deterioration. However, text is best viewed in native resolution since here, scaling is most visible. Therefore, I suggest running native res in Windows.
2. Hz numbers aren't important anymore since LCDs work differently. It's not like the electron cannon has to refresh the entire screen. Simply individual liquid crystals change their orientation and thus, color/hue/intensity, producing "the next frame". Most LCDs are "60 Hz" and you shouldn't even look at this number. There are some 120 Hz displays available but all they do is electronically insert additional frames (black or artificially produced "transition frames") between real frames (the latter method mainly applies to 100/200 Hz LCD TVs). They are compatible with nVidia 3D Vision, a tech where you also need "3D" glasses to achieve 3D effect. I find this technology immature, and the corresponding monitors quite crappy. Stay away IMO.
3. Looking at an LCD monitor, you have to consider the following:
- size/resolution
Three basic choices are available in the midrange/high-end/enthusiast segments: 1680*1050 (20-22"), 1920*1200 (24-27") and 2560*1600 (30"). I recommend going straight for "PC full HD" (1920*1200), or, if you sleep on cash, 30".
Consider the fact that 30" monitors are expensive, have a small pixel pitch (very densely packed pixels which means screen clarity/sharpness is awesome but text is relatively small) and are very demanding in terms of video cards. I have a 1920*1200 monitor - not a typical 24-incher but 26" instead. It provides a large screen with nicely readable, large text, and also a high resolution awesome for games (if a game doesn't support widescreen, I simply use 1600*1200 with vertical black bars - very convenient).
- panel type
Most "cheap" consumer LCDs are based on TN panels, which means:
=> no or low input lag (mouse-screen delay, if high, it can be perceptible especially in fast-paced FPS games),
=> good panel speed (4 ms or less, resulting in reduced motion blur, inherent and inevitable on LCDs, and also no visible ghosting/image trailing),
=> only decent colors (not as accurate or vivid as other panel types),
=> bad viewing angles (horizontal is still OK although white tends to get yellowish off-axis but vertical sucks balls - even a small up-down head movements change your colors on screen, and the screen rapidly darkens viewed from below).
Other popular panels are MVA/PVA panels, known for deepest blacks and best contrast along with good response time but high input lag and so-called black crush (loss of details in darkest tones), and IPS panels, known for average blacks, good contrast, best colors and viewing angles.
I personally prefer IPS, I've had several TN monitors, and while they're fast, I'll never buy one again due to abysmal viewing angles. IPS rocks in this department, and is also fast enough to play all kinds of games.
- panel speed in ms
As long as it's under 16 ms, it's OK. Grey-to-grey is usually lower.
I have the NEC 2690WUXi (it's aimed at CAD professionals), and I think it's great. Perfect viewing angles, decent blacks, good contrast, moderate input lag, incredible colors and very good pixel response time. Its only drawback is high price. Also, some FPS online purists may want a model with lower input lag.
Look at this:
great sites testing LCDs:
http://www.prad.de/ (ENG version is available too)
http://www.flatpanels.dk/ (you should be able to read it in Danish
)http://www.tftcentral.co.uk
good thread on LCDs:
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=39226
If not the NEC, I recommend cheaper options, also based on IPS panels:
LG W2600HP (make sure it's HP, not H, which is a crappy TN) - a nice 26" with low input lag
or
HP LP2475W (good IPS allrounder, 24")
I'm totally IPS-biased, as you can see. I simply find this panel type so superior I won't even look at TNs anymore, regardless of specs.
BTW, one more great site where you can directly compare LCDs (they fucked up 2690WUXi test though, as apparently they forgot to turn overdrive on in the menu):
http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php? ... =1606&ph=1
One more great LCD is an MVA-based NEC:
NEC MultiSync 24WMGX³
Don't skimp on LCD IMO.
w w w . t h e w i t c h e r . c o m
Re: Flat screens
Wow, dude that's just awesome advice! Thanks alot for all the info, matey, now I got a lot to think about! I'll be reading up on those links you provided as well.
Cheers mate!
Cheers mate!
Drunkenmaster wrote:i am teh drun kand tbe drun,. wtf+ .... P?
...
...
<5Nme dream i can see tou I tell you how I fell???
Re: Flat screens
Ive got a Samsung T240HD and it's pretty sweet. The main thing I don't like about it is that it takes FOREVER to come back from idle mode (it's faster to just turn it off and on again then to wiggle the mouse and wait for it to come back) but the stand also sucks. Mine has no dead pixels and very little bleed through. Since getting it the only games I've played are Counterstrike: Source and Left 4 Dead and I have no ghosting issues with those. Since I don't have a t.v. I use it a lot for watching movies and streaming t.v. shows.
if youre gonna be dumb you gotta be tough
shiram wrote:heh seeing as how the only other members we've seen in bathing suit are, iirc, Lisa, and mac...
so yea
Re: Flat screens
No problem. If you're on a specific budget, we can look at available options in the respective price range as well.Bane wrote:Wow, dude that's just awesome advice! Thanks alot for all the info, matey, now I got a lot to think about! I'll be reading up on those links you provided as well.
Cheers mate!
BTW, IMHO you should stay away from glossy screens. Been there, done that. While the glossy screen coating seems to make colors a bit more vibrant, it actually does not, plus it can be distracting if your room is bright and/or you have a light source somewhere behind your back. Reflections can be annoying. I know I won't buy a glossy LCD again. Seeing your own mug instead of a dark scene in a game ain't fun
One more thing - inputs are important if you also want to connect a console to your monitor (HDMI is useful). Otherwise, if your LCD is to be a pure PC monitor, DVI is enough.
Oh, and if you have the chance, check the LCD for dead/stuck pixels before you buy, or, if you can, purchase a zero dead pixel warranty. Usually it's not a problem but with really bad luck, you can score a monitor with several stuck subpixels that are still within the legal limit but are nonetheless very distracting. It happens sometimes, mainly with brands not particularly known for their manufacturing excellence, like LG, Hyundai, ViewSonic or Iiyama.
w w w . t h e w i t c h e r . c o m
Re: Flat screens
Took me forever to get the thumb out of my ass (a weird swedish saying, hehe), but I finally bought a new screen. Nothing too fance, but it was a decent screen with alot of bang for the buck: BenQ's 27 inch M2700HD.
Bigger IS better Heh..
Bigger IS better
Heh..Drunkenmaster wrote:i am teh drun kand tbe drun,. wtf+ .... P?
...
...
<5Nme dream i can see tou I tell you how I fell???
Re: Flat screens
That's what she said.Bane wrote:Bigger IS better
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: Flat screens
Only one drawback to this. My fucking windows seem to confuse which screen is which, and every so often it thinks my TV is my primary screen and ens up booting the desktop to that one instead of to my monitor. Annoys the hell out of me, and the only way to correct it, AFAIK, is to unplug and replug the HDMI-cable.
Weird shit.
Weird shit.
Drunkenmaster wrote:i am teh drun kand tbe drun,. wtf+ .... P?
...
...
<5Nme dream i can see tou I tell you how I fell???
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RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
Re: Flat screens
My monitor is turning 16 this April. I can contribute nothing here but lulz.
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
Re: Flat screens
Aaaaw, sweet sixteen! Buy her a car!
My old monitor was prolly older than that age. It was from the early nineties and cost a fortune back then. My friend's dad had bought it for his company. It was a damn good monitor and those old behemoth's were made to last!
My old monitor was prolly older than that age. It was from the early nineties and cost a fortune back then. My friend's dad had bought it for his company. It was a damn good monitor and those old behemoth's were made to last!
Drunkenmaster wrote:i am teh drun kand tbe drun,. wtf+ .... P?
...
...
<5Nme dream i can see tou I tell you how I fell???
-
RoamingMadness
- Uber Nerd
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:19 pm
- Contact:
Re: Flat screens
Shes big enough to need her own car.Bane wrote:Aaaaw, sweet sixteen! Buy her a car!
My old monitor was prolly older than that age. It was from the early nineties and cost a fortune back then. My friend's dad had bought it for his company. It was a damn good monitor and those old behemoth's were made to last!
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
There probably isn't any meaning in life. Perhaps you can find something interesting to do while you are alive. Like how you found that flower. Like how I found you.
Buttons aren't toys.